Women Speaking in the Church A modern test for Christians www.rlfaber.com/womenspeaking.html Version 2 - March, 30, 2025   othertrend   earlychurchmeeting   relational church   traditional church   organizedreligion   worship

Introduction

How should Christians take the New Testament teaching about "women remaining silent" as described in 1 Corinthians 14? This is a highly contested passage, of course. We will say that there is a modern view that explains it away and says it is not meant to apply to our modern-day culture, at least in America. Then there is the traditional view that says it applies to all times for various reasons, including the appeal to creation, showing the passage is timeless. What is the correct interpretation? If it does apply to our time, then how does it apply if we normally sit in a large auditorium and listen to a preacher? Should the preacher be allowed to be a woman? This is a controversial topic.

Purpose

In this article we will support the traditional view that the Bible means what it plainly says. We will support the idea that women should remain silent in the church assembly, but women can talk in other meetings when it is not the main assembly, but there must always be an avoidance of women teaching when men are present. There are lots of complicated situations and ideas, like women teaching teenagers, who are "men", etc. Our focus will be on the main idea that the Bible supports "women remaining silent" in the church assembly, even though this is a very unpopular idea.

More About The Controversy, Today

This article shares the story of how some Christians are bold enough to stand on the clear teaching of the scriptures, and others fail the test. Many modern Christians have a difficult time accepting the clear New Testament teaching on women remaining silent at times. The context of women remaining silent in the church assembly is most clearly seen in 1 Corinthians 14. Very few Christians remain faithful to the teaching of the apostles and instead become influenced by the arguments of the day. Most Christians find some way to get out of the counter-cultural idea of Christian women remaining silent. The truth is, however, the situation is much worse as the men are also silent. Most church assemblies do not allow men or women to speak, but rather, one man or one woman is permitted to speak during the main assembly. In this article, we will focus on the women remaining silent, but there is a larger issue of men being forced to remain silent that is related to other articles (organized religion, etc).

A Good Perspective, by Justin Peters and Susan Heck

Just to show that we do have agreement with some godly Christians on this topic, we want to share this YouTube video. We appreciate the conversation in this video between Justin Peters and Susan Heck because of the biblical fidelity on this controversial subject (complementarianism vs egalitarianism).

youtube.com/JustinAndSusan-1

This video is also good for how and when it is appropriate for women to speak in the church. Please ignore the attack/response content, that is not our focus. We are mainly interested in the discussion between Susan and Justin on women speaking in the church.

youtube.com/JustinAndSusan-2

We agree with NTRF, John McArthur, and many others who follow the traditional "complementarian" view of "women remaining silent" in the church assembly.

Some would consider themselves "complementarian", like John Piper, but they would be strongly against the other trend. Instead, they would support the traditional church model that makes the men also remain silent (for the most part).

We mention NTRF, because they get both ideas right: other trend + complementarian

This is the kind of Christian mindset who we think most show honor of the scriptures and is the type of Christian thinking that we most seek to find and encourage.

A Flawed View, by Tom Wadsworth, Jon Zens, etc.

On the other hand, we have many friends in the other trend camp, who do not share our views. They believe women should be free to talk in the church assembly like men, and that there should be no distinction, because the Biblical statements in 1 Corinthians 14, etc, are purely a cultural thing that we can discard in these modern days. We disagree with these views. https://www.tomwadsworth.com/answers-to-questions/women-in-the-assembly

Some things that are interpreted wrongly are:

1. Misunderstanding the context of 1 Cor 11:5 (Assuming a church assembly)
2. Misunderstanding the application of Acts 2:17-18 and Joel 1:1 Assuming a lot about prophets that is not clear. Prophecy is a broad word. There can be many different contexts for prophecy outside of the main church assembly.
3. Assuming a lot about Phillips daughters who were prophetesses. (Acts 21:8-9) Notice the lady above who has the New Testament memorized, who is careful to not be speaking in ladies conferences when men are present. That is an attitude of respect for scripture that we admire.
4. Assuming a lot about 1 Thesss 5:19-20 "Do not quench the Spirit. Do not despise prohecies." Assuming that women remaining silent as 1 Cor 14 says, is "quenching the Spirit."
5. Assuming that women who are called "servants" had to be speaking in violation of 1 Cor 14.
6. Misunderstanding the 1 Cor 11:2-16 "creation argument" in 1 Cor 11:8-9 for women who choose to wear the veil literally vs women who have the long hair as a natural covering. The misunderstanding comes out with comments like, "they ignore the creation argument about the veil, but they embrace the creation argument about women speaking." They may say, "If you're going to enforce the restriction against women speaking, you need to enforce the requirement of the veil", not realizing that they are misunderstanding Paul in the "requirement of the veil", when Paul says that long hair on a woman "is given to her for a covering" (1 Cor 11:15).
7. Using the modern sentiment as an argument against the clear teaching of scripture with thoughts like: "much of our culture today-certainly in America-views it as 'disgraceful' and 'improper' to silence women and limit their leadership." But that is a falacious argument as that is the very point scripture making. Of course if you reject the scriptural point, like most modern Americans, then you will be offended at Paul's scriptural statements. But it is a falacy to argue that scripture must be interpreted based on modern sentiment. We need to first ask ourself if we are the rebels. And if Paul meant this "women being silent" idea to be merely cultural, we should find evidence for it in scripture. Otherwise, you really should simply say, that you do not wish to follow this scriptural point and would rather follow the popular view that is easy to follow.
8. The idea that we should equate the "women remaining silent" idea with the abandonment of the "holy kiss" is unfair (1 Cor 16:22). We agree with most modern American's that this is cultural and is clearly so. But the instruction to remain silent is clearly said with stronger and more clear instruction. The instruction to greet one another with a "holy kiss" can easily be seen to be, something like "greet one another warmly with genuine care and love." It is easily seen by the natural reader to be cultural. So the idea could resume and it may be more natural in some other cultures today. But it is not the American way to greet one another. But most people get it. However, if you are trying to dismiss the "women remaining silent" idea, and you claim that "greet one another with a holy kiss" has the same intensity and clarity of teaching force, you are being deceitful. The scriptures clearly put a lot more clarity and force with the "women remain silent" idea. The context even has others told to remain silent also in the same passage (the prophets, if another has something to say).
9. Finally, this is not a conscience issue like Romans 14 says when it is clearly taught in scripture. Do not put this in the same category as drinking wine or eating meat sacrificed to idols. However, we do agree that we will go along with the peace idea and try to avoid contention about the topic. But we strongly reject the idea that this can be put in the "whatever" category like other things that would be freedom issues in Rom 14. Rather, we see this as a test that modern Christians often fail at. Yet, we will gently explain and we will strongly assert what we believe and grant that others may not be willing or ready to accept this clear teaching in the Bible. It is true that each one must be fully convinced in his own mind and that each one will stand before his own master. Christians misunderstand this teaching and still be godly Christians. Many Christians today will get this wrong. Some will be more godly that us. We may have a correct view, but the Christian life is ultimately tested when we stand before God at the end of time.

We must "pursue what makes for peace and mutual upbuilding" (Rom 14:19), so we must accept Christians who have a different view on this topic. In fact, one way of showing love as a Christian, is in sorting out the ideas that we can disagree about and to relate to the other Christians who see things differently. If we can love and interact with the differences, all the better. If we become proud of our own understanding so that we are offended at those who genuinely seem to believe a different interpretation, that is a serious flaw in our own heart. Christian meetings are actually supposed to be places of working out some of these differences. And as the New Testament shows, some working out and explaining of views can be done with written letter or in the privacy of the home. If someone is a public figure with a website and a name, they can be written about online. But if there are sensitive feelings, we can tend to discussing things of difference with a little more privacy. The beauty of the internet is that anyone can interact with the ideas of anyone anywhere in the world, with simply a little bit of online presence (much easier than writing a book) and a keyboard. The danger is that words can hurt if we are not careful.

More About Our Interpretation

NOTE: The rest of this article is old notes from August 17, 2008.

Can women speak at church in some situations? Yes. Can women speak anytime the want? No! Can men speak anytime they want? No! According to 1 Corinthians 14, both men and women are given rules about speaking. Assuming the traditional view that the Bible speaks truthfully and universally about "women remaining silent" in the church assembly, men also must abide by the rules of the meeting and refrain from speaking in certain situations. For example, the text says that if someone else has something to say who is sitting down, the you must allow them to speak and not you. The word is "prophecy", but this is a very broad word that basically means to speak for someone... the idea being to speak encouraging words in the church assembly.

To properly understand the dynamic and context of the Bible, particularly 1 Corinthians 14, we must understand that church was normally a home based thing. There was never a sermon or formal large building event. The Temple was destroyed in 70 AD, and church buildings were not built. The Christians met in homes. So the dynamic of "women remaining silent" should be understood in those terms and in that context. Once we understand the situation, then we can consider how to apply it to our modern day churches.

We believe it is completely unreasonable to assume that the Christians who always had a full meal Lord's Supper would have shared the meal with women remaining silent at that time. We think it would be completely unreasonable to assume that there was nothing meaningful or spiritual in discussion at the time of eating the meal. What matters, is that the most important time of the meeting that was focused on allowing people to share encouraging words would be restricted to men. That is the traditional view that we also hold to. That is the plain reading of the scriptures in 1 Corinthians 14. This view is not liked or appreciated by many Christians today, but for some it is more tied to faith and trust in the apostles that what is easy.

So because church also consisted of the Lord's Supper meal, a very important time in the church meeting, we do believe women could speak "at church" to some degree. The the Bible speaks about women asking their husbands (men) at home, which implies if they have questions and want to discuss anything they could hold it till later at home. Obviously, women would sometimes meet with other women without men present. They would of course sometimes want to talk about things that may relate to something said by the main church assembly meeting (with men only speaking). The Bible is very clear that women were not to be teachers over men in the church. But we imagine women would certainly be allowed and free to speak during a more informal family time when everyone at a full meal together (The Lord's Supper). (See other trend and early church for more on the church assembly)

The New Testament shows that women were very important in the church. Women were highly involved in the ministry of Jesus and the apostle Paul. The New Testament churches, being home based churches, would naturally be very interactive and relational. However, when it comes to the teaching times of the church meeting, these verses are very clear.

Let the women keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but let them subject themselves, just as the Law also says. And if they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in the church. (1 Corinthians 14:34-35, NASB)

Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and become a transgressor. (1 Timothy 2:11-14, NRSV).

The first verse (1 Cor 14:34-35), would seem to say that women should be totally silent at all times in church. But 1 Timothy 2:11-14 seems to clarify it to mean "learn in silence" and not "teach" or have authority in the church [meeting]. Therefore, we think these verses together make it pretty clear. Of course we could study many other verses, but these stand out and we still must deal with these. The question is whether we will follow the New Testament guidelines or follow the dominant cultural opinions of the day. We are amazed how zealously some will work at avoiding the clear teaching of God's Word! We think God is testing us to see who will obey and who will disobey. All of life is a grand drama. In the end, let God's clear teaching stand. "Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice" 1 Sam 15:22.

Summary Of The Main Views

These are the 3 main views about "women remaining silent":

• The Complimentarian / Traditional / Literal View / Universal View This view suggests that women should not speak in the main church meeting and should not be teaching when men are present. Women should of course teach women, but they must not teach men. We think it is fine for women to speak informally, after the main sharing and teaching time that is reserved for men. We assume a home church style meeting (other trend vs traditional church). In a home church setting, we would expect women would to participate in many informal ways, but would carefully avoid teaching men. (This is our view, and seems to be a small minority of Christians in America)

• The Modern Complimentarian / Traditional / Adapted View This view suggests that women should not be preachers or teachers in the church meeting. But this view allows women to freely speak in the church meeting in various other ways because 1 Cor 11 would seems to suggest that women did speak in some cases. (This is not our view, but we are more tolerant of this view than the view below. Many Christians hold this view)

• The Egaltarian / Feminist / Non-Literal / Highly Adapted View This view suggests that women can freely speak just like men because our culture is very different from New Testament times. According to this view, women can even be preachers and teachers in the church meeting. They can even exercise authority over men in the church. They may also be permitted to be elders. (This is very far from our view. Many Christians hold this view)

FOOTNOTES

1. Complimentarian, Traditional, Literal view:

• Our current thinking. 1 Cor 11 is not the church meeting !
• NTRF - Steven Atkerson